Let's talk yellow lights.

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 02/26/2019 at 11:29 • Filed to: None

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An article on The Drive started me down the rabbit hole. Interesting how important yellow light length is to preventing accidents at intersections. I wonder if most yellows are timed to go with the speed limit, or the actual speed that the majority of drivers go through intersections (varies greatly, I’m sure). Clearly, it should be the latter. 

Found this:

Minimum Yellow Light Times

The following table of actual vehicle approach speed vs. minimum yellow light times is a result of calculating the yellow interval duration per the ITE-proposed formula (shown in the next section of this page) and rounding up the result to the nearest half second. These yellow light times are not statutory requirements that can be used as a defense in a court of law. But they do provide a rule-of-thumb when initially evaluating whether a traffic signal’s yellow light timing is possibly deficient. Note that these intervals are for normal passenger cars traveling in through, i.e., non-turning, lanes. They are not adequate for turn lanes or special cases such as heavy trucks or buses.

The Federal Highway Administration’s Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices provides guidance that the yellow interval be between three and six seconds without tying the requirement to specific approach velocities. That said, anything falling below the yellow times shown here should be considered as a potential short yellow light.

25 MPH — 3.0 Seconds
30 MPH — 3.5 Seconds
35 MPH — 4.0 Seconds
40 MPH — 4.5 Seconds
45 MPH — 5.0 Seconds
50 MPH — 5.5 Seconds
55 MPH — 6.0 Seconds

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http://www.shortyellowlights.com/standards/

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Ash78, voting early and often > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 11:48

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On a traffic light green means ‘go’ and yellow means ‘yield’, but on a banana it’s just the opposite. Green means ‘hold on,’ yellow means ‘go ahead,’ and red means, ‘where the hell did you get that banana at?’

Simultaneously the best and worst Mitch Hedberg joke ever.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 11:52

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I think they should do a painted “stop” line as you approach the intersection. The distance away from the traffic light would be dependent on the speed limit and yellow light time. If you are past the line, continue on if the light turns yellow. If you have not crossed the line, stop for the light. It would take a lot of guess work from if you should blow thru or slam on your brakes. It would be particularly helpful for inexperienced/unskilled/distracted drivers.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 02/26/2019 at 11:53

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Ha - nice.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 02/26/2019 at 11:55

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That’s a really good idea, but won’t help much with distracted drivers - ha!

Just Jeepin' > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 11:56

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I seem to recall some municipalities have been caught shortening yellow times to increase the number of red light camera fines. Craziness.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Just Jeepin' 02/26/2019 at 11:58

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Great idea, guys! So, what are the other side effects from this change other than greatly increasing  city revenue?

Deaths. The answer is deaths.

WilliamsSW > Just Jeepin' 02/26/2019 at 12:05

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Chicago.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 12:08

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That’s true. It might with semi distracted drivers that at least see the light is yellow but have no idea for how long. Maybe. haha

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 12:14

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One might say they were warranted if it was late yellow/red lighters that were removed.

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 12:15

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facw > WilliamsSW 02/26/2019 at 12:18

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IIRC, in Chicago they didn’t cut the light time, exactly. What was happening is that apparently due to fluctuations in the power grid, lights naturally last for slightly different amounts of time. Chicago had a rule that if a light was yellow for less than the minimum amount of time allowed, they wouldn’t issue a red light ticket. then to increase revenue they scrapped that rule. This was still not good from a safety perspective as it encourages even more erratic driving.

I do think other places did actually change the light timing though.

facw > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 02/26/2019 at 12:19

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Some places in Austin had this when I was there! They aren’t marked though so I didn’t actually figure out that that’s what they were for until shortly before I left, and I never really integrated it into my driving technique.

WilliamsSW > facw 02/26/2019 at 12:21

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Yeah, I don’t recall the specifics, but for a time, they were issuing tickets at red lights with *very* short yellows.

facw > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 12:22

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My impression is that yellow lights in TX are much longer than the ones in the Northeast. I don’t think this is just a matter of speed limits though, I think that they are just trying to be more cautious because people are bad about obeying lights (though a longer all red would probably be better).

I imagine with changing the timing there’s an adaptation period after which benefits decrease, especially if everything is changed. Presumably it is the expectation of how long a yellow is vs. how long it actually is that is important.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/26/2019 at 12:23

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Every yellow light is a judgement call. Running a red light is irresponsible, dangerous behavior, but going through an intersection on yellow is something all of us do at times. A municipality “changing the rules”, so that an identical action by a driver changes from judicious to reckless, is irresponsible and dangerous.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 12:27

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I play it this way, if I can stop I do. Basically unless it turns yellow as I’m entering, I can/do stop. Meanwhile 3 cars in the lane next to me continue through.

Sorry if I have no sympathy for those people.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > facw 02/26/2019 at 12:30

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That’s awesome! I wonder if they are doing a pilot program.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/26/2019 at 12:35

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But do those three all exit the intersection on yellow? I also have zero sympathy for people who run red lights, but c onsider that i t can also be dangerous to come to a too-abrupt stop if you could’ve easily passed through on yellow. No reason to do a “panic” stop in these situations, especially if traffic is flowing at 45-55 mph. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 12:56

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Going back and forth between Louisiana and Texas every week really made the difference in the yellow light timing stand out. Louisiana yellows are loooong. Texas yellows are very short. I always have to remember that when I come back to Houston. I’ve had some close calls.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/26/2019 at 12:58

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There really should be an accepted national standard, based on average speed of traffic which passes through the intersection. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 12:59

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They all end up going through on red...

TheRealBicycleBuck > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 13:13

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There’s a national suggestion , but it’s not a mandate.

https://gizmodo.com/how-long-a-yellow-light-should-be-1647634895

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/26/2019 at 13:23

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Yeah, no sympathy. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/26/2019 at 14:07

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I’ve gotten to the point where, if I’m sitting at a light and it turns green and another car is still in the intersection, having clearly just run the light, I just lay on my horn until they’re through. At the very least, these assholes should get  some public shaming.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 16:02

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I usually get quite close to them as I start leaving the green light, then lay on the horn. It usually scares the living hell out of them.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 16:04

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Usually the light turns yellow with plenty of room for me to stop, without braking hard, and 2-4 cars in the next lane ( at least 3-4 car lengths behind me ) just cruise right through like it’s no big deal.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/26/2019 at 16:10

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I wonder how often there’s a accident because a habitual yellow/red runner is tailgating  a well-behaved fellow like yourself, expecting them to blast through instead of braking like they should.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/26/2019 at 16:19

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It’s yet to happen to me, likewise I’m always watching my mirrors to avoid morons like that, sooo....

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/26/2019 at 16:23

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Yep.